Season 7: A Little Bit Louder Now • May 14. 2024

National Security, Integrity, and Self-Advocacy.

Shana Cosgrove talks to Sue Gordon, former Principal Deputy Director of National Intelligence (DDNI), Deputy Director of National Geospatial Agency (NGA), and Director within Central Intelligence Agency (CIA).

In this episode of The Outspoken Podcast, host Shana Cosgrove talks to Sue Gordon, former Principal Deputy Director of National Intelligence (DDNI), Deputy Director of National Geospatial Agency (NGA), and Director within Central Intelligence Agency (CIA). Sue begins by sharing how losing her career as a civilian in National Security became the catalyst for her future. Next, Sue speaks to a life inside in the CIA and how the CIA values performance over pedigree. A common thread connecting her talking points is the skill of critical thinking and decision making. Sue Gordon’s professional trajectory defied logic, landing her in top government appointments and it all began with a Bachelor’s in Zoology. 

QUOTES

  • “I think there probably is a piece of wanting to figure out how to contribute when I’m the structure … I think I’m good at advice; I think I’m great at building.” – Sue Gordon [06:21]

  • “The best lesson I learned that I could have missed was early in my career … My second job moved me out of technical analysis into space policy. I had to learn to ‘do’ something, not ‘talk’ something.” – Sue Gordon [19:05]

  • “By that point, my children were 13 and 9 and it became obvious that my 13 year old in particular was starting to make some terrible decisions. I’m an ‘in’ or ‘out’ person and I didn’t know how to anymore be as good of a mom and as good of an Intelligence Officer as I wanted to be – so I chose the one that only I could be.” – Sue Gordon [48:45]

TIMESTAMPS 

  • [00:04] Intro

  • [01:34] Meet Sue Gordon

  • [03:10] Losing Her Career As Intelligence Officer

  • [08:26] Appointment to Deputy Director of National Intelligence

  • [10:51] Majoring in Zoology

  • [17:25] Significance of Working in National Security

  • [18:54] Important Foundational Universal Professional Skills in Early Career

  • [23:42] Women Are Frequently Pushed Out of Technical Positions into Speaking/Management Positions

  • [28:08] Benefits of Being Your Own Harshest Critic

  • [31:33] Job Specific Roles: Director vs. Deputy Director of National Intelligence

  • [39:50] Effective Perspectives to Implement Change

  • [42:19] Agile Decision Making

  • [48:26] Taking 8 Continuous Years Off of Work

  • [51:33] Coming Back to the CIA in 2007

  • [55:10] Being Comfortable Being in the Front

  • [59:31] How To Get Better at Making Decisions

  • [1:06:32] Decision-Making As a Group

  • [1:07:11] Personally/Professionally Impactful Books

  • [1:09:48] Lesser Known Fact About Sue Gordon

  • [1:10:47] Outro

RESOURCES

RELEVANT LINKS

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Live well, Shana

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